Bullshido posts

The following is kind of long but well worth the time it takes to read.

The following posts originally appeared on Bullshido.net on 02-08-03. For the entire posts please go to Bullshido.net and do a search for Jungyae Moosul or you can reference these links:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1953&highlight=jungyae

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2216&highlight=jungyae

reprinted here are excerpts from those posts of relevant information minus the comments and replies.


Hello All,
I have been reading articles here for a while, but I have never posted. I don’t get to stop in very often, but when I did this time I found this topic. Why is that important you ask? Well because I am an ex-Jungyae Moosul Instructor. After reading the posts here I thought it was important for people to know about Jungyae and to add to / clarify some of the things being said here. I am not here to bash per say and what I have to talk about are simply my opinions and recollections of events as I saw them happen – YMMV.

First if you really want to understand please go here and read the whole message thread.

http://anyboard.net/rec/sports/Royal_Dragons_Dungeon/posts/361.html

This link has been posted before, but it is written very well (better than I could ) I know the Instructor who wrote this and I invite him to repost it here if he is so inclined. Yes, he is also en ex-JYMS Instructor and no I am not him.

First - yes, Jungyae Moosul is basically Tae Kwon Do Plus. Even though they claim to teach all styles (and have theories for them) they have no real application for anything except a Hard Tae Kwon Do style. All the forms, hand and foot techniques are based on Tae Kwon Do. There are weapons and self-defense techniques thrown in at each belt level. Some are really good while others were simply made up by the “master” (or made up by someone else and then the “master” would take credit) - at the time I left their was an attempt to put in Wing Chun style techniques at the Black Belt level, this was not well executed. Instead of actually learning a style of Wing Chun the “master” preceded to simply make up and modify his own “Wing Chun style” of techniques. Also, we were told not to call it Wing Chun, because: “This is Jungyae Moosul and all things must come from Jungyae Moosul.”

Any Kung-Fu style of techniques that were seen would most likely have come from the Marysville Academy (at the time, Marysville is one of the schools that has left Jungyae) or from the Woodinville Academy. The Instructors of those academies have (or had) a deeper interest and understanding of the soft styles and would often supplement their training (or demo teams) with those aspects. If some one asked the “master” would always say he taught them everything and it all comes from Jungyae Moosul, when in fact the “master” is simply a Tae Kwon Do “master”.

Yes the requirements change all the time. This is one thing the Instructors (those still in the system and those that have left) always hated. The “master” wanted to change the system into something easier to teach (at least that is what we were told, it mostly seems like a money thing). So the system was changed from a 10-belt system to an 18-belt system. I did not really have a problem with this when it first happened (thinking it was for the better and not “just” for the money), but the “master” switched with out even finishing the requirements for the new belt system. For example at the Blue belt level, students were supposed to learn Kama and a Kama form. There was no Kama form and we were told: “Just teach them anything they won’t know.” Or “Don’t worry, just show them something else.” At least until they went to testing and the “master” would then yell at the students telling them they are doing it wrong. I personally lost student after I taught something just the way the “master” had showed it to me and then have the “master” tell them at testing that they were doing it all wrong. Say what!?! What would be worse is then the “master” would re-teach us how to do it and it would be exactly what they did at testing –or something the Instructors had never even seen before. Requirements were switched, updated and changed almost every week. You were lucky if you got all the changes or even understood them. I know for a fact this is still happening.

As far as who is selfish and greedy – well let’s look. The “master” kept all the testing fees (minus a very small percentage given to the Instructors, who actually did all the work). He had a Mercedes, a minivan (with all the TV and VCR extras) a new house and would ware $100 shirts all the time; he also supported his wife (who does not have a job), and 2 children. He would often tell the Instructors that they must suffer for the system and not to expect anything, this is the best way. Several of the Instructors lived in their schools; one Instructor did not even own a car! The schools were expected to pay for their own advertising, even though with 7 schools in the WA area, testing would bring in sometimes more than $10,000 every 2 months! Where was that money? I guess the Mercedes needed a check-up. It is also interesting to note that the “master’s” school was really no bigger than the other schools and had the same average number of students. The Instructors also had no health care, no benefits of any kind, but often did extra work for no pay for the glorious Federation (this too is still on going).

Well that is all I have time for right now. So far this is just the basic stuff and yes there is more. A lot of the more stuff is more personal and I want to think it through before posting. Let me know if there are questions and I will do what I can to answer. Just to be fair, please realize that I have been out of Jungyae Moosul for over 6 months now and any information I have on the system would now be second hand.

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I too am a former Jungyae instructor and still have several ties on the inside. One of the things that bothered me most about Junyae Moosul or more specifically, the "master" was his lack of humility and his extreme need to controll and be everything. The claim of Jungyae is that it is a "complete" martial art, when in fact it is simply TKD+. This would not be so bad except that when the instructors realized it and wanted to learn new things and new styles to help make the "complete' claims true, they were told that to train with anyone else was "treason" and "un-loyal" to the Jungyae family. For years we were told not to read books, study videos and most importantly never cross the line and learn from anyone else. To top this off, he wasn't teaching us anything. He expected us to just learn everything on our own. Unfortunately for him, many of his instructors did learn from other masters and soon started to realize that the "master" who claimed to teach a "complete" art was doing anything but. No true soft style, no mimicry styles (animal, drunken, etc.., no internal arts, no qigong (he said practicing these things made people crazy), no practical combat (many instructors did teach combat application but the "master" rarely if ever did).

This is the main reason I left:
For someone to not teach me and then think he has any right to tell me I can't learn from someone else is fooling himself completely. No man, and I mean no man has the God given right to tell me what I can and can not learn.

Since my departure, i have spoken with a couple of people still on the inside and have learned that he has seen the light. He has decided to now let instructors learn from whoever they wan't... WITH CERTAIN CONDITIONS
Please keep in mind this is only what I have been told by others.
1. Instructors cannot tell there students they are learning from someone else.
2. Instructors cannot teach anything they have learned.
3. Instructors cannot demonstrate what they have learned to students.
4. If a student happens to see an instructor doing any of these new things and asks about them, the instructor must tell them it was learned from the "master" and is a part of the "complete" jungyae moosul system

What a crock!
I'm sure I will think of more and post it later.

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Just A quick thought, just to show how backwards the thinking of the “master” is (and yes I constantly put that in quotes because it pains me to actually refer to him as such)

There are all these schools that are rushing to put grappling in and make some claim to the fact that they have it. Jungyae actually had Jujitsu techniques before it became the big buzz. The “master” took it out of the curriculum (the big belt switch thing)saying that people don’t really like that sort of thing and it looks bad (?) - I tried to convince him at one time to put it back; he just said what he would always say if you questioned curriculum:

“You don’t understand the big picture, I know, I see everything and I know what works. You don’t know.”

Well, looking back, I guess I knew enough to get out.

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Speaking of “You don’t understand the big picture, I know, I see everything and I know what works. You don’t know.”...

At on point the "master" wanted to put on a Knife self-defense/fighting seminar. He put it into the hands of an instructor who had taken the time to study the Philipino methods. When it was time for the seminar to start the "master" decided that rather than let the instructor with the knife experience run it, he would run it himself. The reason? "That Philipino stuff is no good and doesn't work. I grew up in Hong Kong and I know what really works."

When all was said and done the seminar turned out to be a total joke to be mocked. As an instructor that had to stand there and support the "master" it pained me to watch every student with previous martial arts experience roll their eyes every time something new was taught.

While I understand that in a knife fight, you most likely will get cut, anyone who thought this seminar was for real would probably die.

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Un_Jungyae above (hello my fellow x-jyms brother ) ) made a point I want to expand on (about the lack of humility, which I think is a very nice way of putting it). Everyone should realize that this “master” is about as two faced as they come. He would always go on about the right way to do things and that we had to treat everyone the same and ALWAYS follow the rules. That was until they affected him or until women were involved. I loose count when I look at the number of different ways that he lied and deceived even behind his own Instructors. He will tell you what you want to here in order to indebt yourself to him and then he will use you until every drop of your life force is gone. Once he is done with you he will simply drop you from his life and move on. I have often heard him say that you just forget about anybody who leaves; “Just forget them, cut them off.”

Now anybody who is out there and thinking, no he is not that way, or if you are thinking; no he has changed, then I point you to another of his favorite sayings: “You cannot change who you are.” He has done BAD things to people and he will again, simply because he believes it is his right. He is the “master” and he knows everything (in his own mind). This man (and I use that term loosely) has a ‘god complex’ that is just crazy. The Instructors would even make fun of this behind his back, but he is quite serious about him being the best at everything. I have been there when he told an Instructor (who has a degree in computer graphics, has worked for a fortune 500 advertising firm and worked as a freelance artist for his whole life) that he knows nothing about designing and if he (the “master”) had the time he could do so much better. – Yeah right.

I have seen a lot about Oom Yung Doe from KC Elbow and other places. The best thing I can say about Jungyae Moosul is… well its not as bad as OYD, but the similarities that are there are scary. If you train at one of the “satellite” schools (which would now just be Kirkland and Woodinville, and the school in Missouri, though truthfully I am not familiar with them at all) consider yourself lucky. The Instructors there are doing their best to deliver the best martial arts they can in a hostile environment. Stay as far from the “master” as you can. Unfortunately you will still have to see him at testing time, but if you are in the system that cannot be avoided (unless you are a private student, then ask your Instructor to please just teach you). Survival Trips and seminars should be avoided, save money for something worthwhile, most of these are thrown together last minute with the attitude that you won’t know any better.

That’s all I can do tonight. I had to burn some energy off from working out and doing taxes ) Good night.

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The Following Post was an update made on 3-29-04. The original thread can be seen here:
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11047&highlight=jungyae

Hello all. I have not posted in a long time, but I do browse often. Basically I am taking some time to update everyone on some things that have happened with my old school Jungyae Moosul. For those unfamiliar with the whole story please checkout the following links:


• This was one of the original threads posted by an ex-instructor of Jungyae Moosul (not me BTW). It is well written and it details a lot of the goings on in the system. Make sure you read “My Story” parts 1 to 4.:



http://www.anyboard.net/rec/sports/.../posts/359.html



• From the Bullshido forums you can find a continuation of the story here:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/sho...=jungyae+moosul



and here:



http://www.bullshido.net/forums/sho...=jungyae+moosul


The basic update is as follows:


A few weeks ago the there were 3 schools still left in Washington State. Mukilteo (where the so called founder is), Kirkland and Woodinville. At this time Kirkland and Woodinville have left the “federation” (meaning the so called “master”) and are now running independently. I have not spoken with them much, but I hope to soon. I did receive a call from the Kirkland Instructor telling me that they has left and he was hoping to stay in touch with me now that they had left.

For those in the Woodinville and Kirkland schools let me say congratulations. The Instructors at those schools are top notch and really care about their students – IMHO. My current understanding is that they are reevaluating the curriculum and moving back towards what Jungyae Moosul was at its conception –a hard fighting style.

To anyone who still trains at the Mukilteo school. I ask you to really look at your so called “master” and wonder what he is really giving you. Realize that to him, you are no more than a money sign and he will tap you for all he can. Ask him why all these schools left and see if you get an honest answer… most likely he will just brush you off or even say that we did not leave but he got rid of us. Also, I believe that the Mukilteo's lease is up in May - has it been renewed or another location been aquired? If not what happens with those contracts he made you sign? Something to think about. Is this truly someone you want to learn from?

If there are any questions please let me know, I will try and stop by to answer as time permits.